Releu De Incarcare

[Rebel]

Caut releu de incarcare ZZR 600 din 1996.

 

Second hand sau nou.

 

 

Multumesc

[tuningboy]

se pare ca au inebunit toate . cred ca esti al 3lea sau al4lea care cauta acelasi releu.

Din ce am gasit eu pentru Honda, sunt in jur de 150euro SH. Sper la tine sa fie mai ieftin

[Rebel]

am inteles ca sunt in jur de 50 de euro... dar sa vad unde gasesc...

[dabix]

O fi acelasi lucru cu regulatorul de tensiune ? Daca da atunci am auzit si eu ca ar costa cam 50 Euro.

Editat Septembrie 12, 2006 de dabix

[alexandrub]

da-l ma in masa.........merge si de dacie......si costa muuuult mai putin tre doar sa ti-l lege unu priceput ca sa identifice firele

[dark_evil]

da-l ma in masa.........merge si de dacie......si costa muuuult mai putin

tre doar sa ti-l lege unu priceput ca sa identifice firele

Pai cel de dacie e monofazat si cel de motocicleta e trifazat nush cum ar putea merge cel de dacie.Bafta si bagati piese originale ca exista riscul de foc....

[sorinpreotescu]

Pai cel de dacie e monofazat si cel de motocicleta e trifazat nush cum ar putea merge cel de dacie.Bafta si bagati piese originale ca exista riscul de foc....

 

 

 

mai baieti, daca nu stiti, nu va bagati.

ala de dacie monofazat? ????????

 

Ideea e k japonezele (inclusiv kawa) au alternatorul cu excitatie magnetica permanenta (si nu electromagnetica).

De aceea releul regulator de tensiune (care contine si redresarea de curent) este TOTAL DIFERIT de cel de dacie.

 

Daca sunteti din bucuresti, ne putem intalni sa-mi dati un releu defect, sa ma uit dc-l pot repara (bine-nteles, si dc merita).

[mihaip]

mai baieti, daca nu stiti, nu va bagati.

ala de dacie monofazat? ????????

 

Ideea e k japonezele (inclusiv kawa) au alternatorul cu excitatie magnetica permanenta (si nu electromagnetica).

De aceea releul regulator de tensiune (care contine si redresarea de curent) este TOTAL DIFERIT de cel de dacie.

 

Daca sunteti din bucuresti, ne putem intalni sa-mi dati un releu defect, sa ma uit dc-l pot repara (bine-nteles, si dc merita).

 

Nu mai am releul defect ca am fost curios ce avea in el

Daca as fi vazut topicul de mai jos de pe atunci , ti-as fi putut da unul .

http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/VoltageRectifierFAQ.htm

Cauta sectiunea "An Autopsy of a Classic (Funduro) F650 Voltage Rectifier / Regulator - Failed Classic VR" la sfarsitul paginii si o sa-ti dai seama cam ce se fute la ele .

Daca poti repara releul ala, spune-mi si mie ca mi se pare interesant.

[sorinpreotescu]

Nu mai am releul defect ca am fost curios ce avea in el

Daca as fi vazut topicul de mai jos de pe atunci , ti-as fi putut da unul .

http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/VoltageRectifierFAQ.htm

Cauta sectiunea "An Autopsy of a Classic (Funduro) F650 Voltage Rectifier / Regulator - Failed Classic VR" la sfarsitul paginii si o sa-ti dai seama cam ce se fute la ele .

Daca poti repara releul ala, spune-mi si mie ca mi se pare interesant.

 

 

Din pacate nu am acces la pagina cu pricina

politici de securitate:(

 

in principiu, treaba e cam asa:

Tot ce e electronic se poate repara.

Schema de functionare a regulatorului de tensiune e chiar banala, chiar am facut si eu una pe hartie, insa n-am apucat s-o testez.

Dc ai vre-un releu, da-l si eu zic k se face

[mihaip]

Incerc sa copii articolul , e interesant (http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/VoltageRectifierFAQ.htm#Anyone%20analysed%20the%20INSIDE%20to%20check%20for%20faults) :

 

An Autopsy of a Classic (Funduro) F650 Voltage Rectifier / Regulator - Failed Classic VR

 

Yesterday I took Chris from Santa Cruz' dead VR to the Failure Analysis lab and we x-rayed it. I have some pictures that I will include in the final report. The cause of failure was a lead that came loose from what was either a capacitor or diode. It looks like the component spilled its guts, too. We couldn't see much more, shooting

through the aluminum heat sink.

 

 

 

Chris in Santa Cruz sent me his dead VR for an autopsy / reverse engineering. Below is a composite of two x-ray pictures of the unit, as received, shot through the heat sink. The three vertical bars are connected to the phases (yellow wires) of the alternator. These have diodes stamped into them that engage the two horizontal buss bars in the middle. One bar is ground (brown wire) and the other is positive “12V” out (white/red wire). The green “sense” wire is the small one running up the right side to the regulator portion.

 

See those blobs near the top of the picture? We thought those might be capacitors or diodes. Take a CLOSE look at the one in the middle phase. That doesn’t look right. So we zoomed in on it and saw what is probably the cause of failure for this unit, an open circuit.

 

X-rays have to have a lot of energy to go through metal. The VR is potted in some sort of epoxy. We figured we’d have a better view if we got rid of the metal and the epoxy. An infrared spectrograph indicated that this epoxy was a highly cross-linked compound that probably would not respond to solvents. Sometimes you can heat up an epoxy and it sort of melts, allowing you to remove the potted components. Not this epoxy. This would likely heat up until it started to “decompose” which is a fancy way of saying “catch fire.” So I sawed off the heat sink.

 

This allowed us to shoot lower energy x-rays through the epoxy in the hope of seeing more. We did. If you look very closely in this picture, you can see evidence of circuit board traces toward the right end. And there are clearly a few components there.

 

 

Lowering the beam energy even more means that you can’t see through the buss bars as well. But you CAN see the traces in the circuit board more clearly.

 

 

Since the key to this thing is that regulator board, we decided to… remove it. This was done with a vise and hammer and screwdriver. The potting epoxy was laid down in two stages and didn’t adhere to itself homogeneously. So we could split it.

 

 

And then out came the regulator, dipped in white nylon. Here is the regulator. There are two transistors, three-terminal devices in the lower left quadrant. There are three resistors, on the left side, probably of two values. In the middle section are two other components. The one at the top appears to be a diode and the one below it is probably a resistor. We guess that the diode is a zener diode for a voltage reference.

 

 

We played with the beam energy a little bit to see if we could get any other clues…

 

 

We thought we saw a number and found that we did…

These three terminal devices are either transistors or silicon controlled rectifiers.

We did mass spectrometry on the white stuff (in red below) and found it to be a pretty good match to a known sample of a polydimethysiloxane compound (in blue), commonly called silicone.

Paul didn’t have any of the hexo-flouro-bad-shit-solvent on hand in the lab that will dissolve most silicones. So we tried heating it in an oven to 150 degrees C for awhile. Some of the lighter aromatic stuff left, making it a bit more brittle. But it didn’t melt or liquefy at all. If we heated it up much higher, the solder would start to re-flow. Silicone is real easy to carve with a sharp knife. So, Exacto-time it was.

 

*

 

The IR spectrometer said the potting material was a multi-strand polymer epoxy. The means it won't melt, it'll burn. So we didn't heat it up to pull the guts out. Instead, I took it home and cleanly removed the heat sink off with a hacksaw and hammer.

*

 

In a few minutes, I am heading back to the FA lab to see if we can read component labels with x-rays that no longer have to have enough energy to pierce aluminum. More as it develops. My one comment so far is that this thing appears to be as crude as all get-out.

*

 

Two things. First, what looked like a diode or cap, viewed from above through the aluminum, was actually a solder joint. Next, NFW was Interesting. I know how hard it can be to identify such things thru an x-ray profile. Paul thought they were caps or diodes, too. And he's the one with the keys to the x-ray machine.

*

 

Anyway, we surmise that it might have been a cold solder joint perhaps with bad-ass electro migration that caused the circuit to open. Interesting. With the potting, likely it was overheating, and not using higher temperature/stronger solder, which saved them 3 yen per unit. Just curious - were there any air voids/bubbles in the potting material, or was it rather solid?

*

 

I'll make the photos available in the report. Paul is gonna be around next week. I'll be at work Mon and Tues, but my boss won't. So likely Paul and I will finish poking around and I will do the write-up and post it where you can see it. Do you want me to post it "privately" for you and K. for pre-release discussion?

*

 

We also have a 10m anechoic EMI chamber and complete environmental lab (altitude as well as temp and humidity).

*

 

I wonder if the cause was overheating, or vibration? I'm curious because some such (heavy diode) connections are "stamp welded" for assembly, and sometimes bad ones vibrate loose when subjected to heating and cooling cycles.

*

 

Two things. First, what looked like a diode or cap, viewed from above through the aluminum, was actually a solder joint. Next, NFW was vibration an issue in this epoxy potting. The diode connections were "stamp welded" I guess, because as near as I can tell, when you pull the buss strips off, all you are pulling them off of is silicon.

*

 

Anyway, we surmise that it might have been a cold solder joint perhaps with bad-ass electro migration that caused the circuit to open.

*

 

Q. So which portion was the failed connection in? The rectifier, or the V control hybrid part? A. BETWEEN them. The regulator has six terminals. One was upgefuhkt.

*

 

Not surprising that it's a hybrid chip (but it's a PITA!) Nippon-Denso is certainly big enough to go that route (designing their own) for manufacturing. If you guys are looking at the chip, you must have an x-ray electron microscope - those suckers are cool! - I used to repair a couple in a previous job.

 

 

 

Din pacate nu am acces la pagina cu pricina

politici de securitate:(

 

in principiu, treaba e cam asa:

Tot ce e electronic se poate repara.

Schema de functionare a regulatorului de tensiune e chiar banala, chiar am facut si eu una pe hartie, insa n-am apucat s-o testez.

Dc ai vre-un releu, da-l si eu zic k se face

 

 

Am copiat articolul cu tot cu poze . Enjoy

 

Exista pe forum un thread mai vechi cu o schema de releu de incarcare care merge . Am implementat-o si eu (cu ajutor de la cineva mai bun la hard decat mine ) si am folosit puntea redresoare de la dacie . In cele din urma m-am impotmolit la impachetare pentru ca tiristorii trebuiau raciti, cablaju protejat .. etc .

 

Problema cea mai mare la repararea unui astfel de releu este scoaterea din rasina in care este impachetat. Dupa aia , daca e doar un traseu topit/intrerupt se poate repara, daca e un tiristor/dioda fututa e mai complicat pentru ca, dupa cum vezi in poza sint bine lipite pe barele alea de metal.