suicide shifter

[TheFatBob]

well,daca intereseaza pe cineva acest subiect:

citeam un articol despre asta,si am inteles ca e cam fortat acest termen"suicide shifter",ca de fapt este vorba despre "suicide clutch" si ca nu orice motor cu schimbator la mina sau pe rezervor poate fi numit asa.

am sa incerc sa reproduc si articolul,ca sa vedem ce se intelege de acolo.

 

TFB

Editat Aprilie 30, 2009 de TheFatBob

[cristi80]

din ce stiam sunt doi termeni separati,shifterul si clutchul cand e vorba de suicide!

[MotoRocker]

io nu stiu de ce suicide...am inteles la hot roduri, cu usile, ca te trantesc daca incerci sa cobori in mers, dar la mobre nu ma prind de ce suicice? ca tre sa schimbi cu mana si poti sa cazi?

[->Bullet<-]

io nu stiu de ce suicide...am inteles la hot roduri, cu usile, ca te trantesc daca incerci sa cobori in mers, dar la mobre nu ma prind de ce suicice? ca tre sa schimbi cu mana si poti sa cazi?

 

 

aha. d'aia ca ''nu esti atent'' si poti sa o incasezi ...

[->Bullet<-]

un suicide shift pe un west cost chopper

 

 

 

PS : e si normal sa nu fie aceeasi chestie. ca unu e ambreiaju si unu e schimbatoru de viteze nu-i asa ?

[Taz Asg]

un suicide shift pe un west cost chopper

 

 

 

PS : e si normal sa nu fie aceeasi chestie. ca unu e ambreiaju si unu e schimbatoru de viteze nu-i asa ?

 

pai sunt doua diferite dar..... cum schimbi treapta de viteza fara sa actionezi ambreiajul??

[TheFatBob]

nu cred ca e vorba atit despre dezechilibru cit despre imposibilitate de a opri/pleca in intersectii....

ia utati ce zice Buck Lovell-editor la American Cycle:

"I keep hearing the term"suicide shifter"spoken by bike owners who have a hand shift or tank shift installed on their motorcycle.Im here to say theres no such thing as suicide shifter.The corect terminology for a hand shifted transmission is either tank shift or jockey shift,but the "suicide"label is reserved for motorcycles that have a non-rocker clutch,hand shift(tank or jockey),and no front brake.

That combination of equipment was and still is referred to as a "suicide clutch".

When riding a motorcycle so equipped,riders would run a stop sign or stop light located on a steep hill because they couldn't activate both the brake pedal and the clutch pedal,and still have a foot to hold the motorcycle up.When going through the stop light or stop sign,many times cross traffic would hit the motorcycle and many deaths occurred as a result,particulary in SanFrancisco."...

Editat Aprilie 30, 2009 de TheFatBob

[->Bullet<-]

disclaimer.. : daca imi aduc bine aminte jesse james ( west coast c. owner) a prezentat chopper-u respectiv ca avand ''jockey shift'' dar nu sunt sigur...am sa ma interesez insa

 

oricum : cui nu i-ar place sa zica ''bah motoru meu are din ala...suicide shift ! ''...zau acu'

[tedted]

Mi s-a parut interesant si ce scrie pe Wikipedia despre Suicide Shifter. Cred ca ma apuca boala chopperelor

 

 

Suicide shifter

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Suicide shifter is a nick-name for a hand-shifter mounted onto a motorcycle. The name is commonly thought to be derived from the fact that to operate one, a rider must perform the risky maneuver of removing one hand from the handlebars while shifting. In truth, the reason that it is called a "Suicide" shift is because if one were to accidentally lift his/her foot off of the clutch (which is actuated by a foot pedal) to prevent the motorcycle from falling over while stopped, the motorcycle could move forward rapidly and send the rider into traffic. It was quite common for older motorcycles to be run without front brakes as well which makes the situation even more dangerous if one's clutch foot should slip off while at a stop. Suicide shifters are not usually sold as an aftermarket part, but instead, have to be fabricated for the target vehicle. Please see Jockey shifter for a more in-depth explanation.

 

[edit] Types of shifters

 

Clutchless Suicide Shifter - This is where the shifter is a regular knob and involves the semi-complex task of two-handed shifting. One hand is used to press the clutch lever on the handlebars and the second hand is used to shift gears. A poorly designed motorcycle will have the clutch and a clutchless shifter on the same side making shifting during operation extremely dangerous or even impossible.

 

Clutched Suicide Shifter - This shifter has a clutch lever on it allowing one-handed shifting. This shifter is preferred since greater steering control is retained during shifting.

 

 

Suicide shifters were common on mid-20th century Harley-Davidson motorcycles but are considered obsolete and are not found on modern motorcycles. Some custom motorcycle makers will fabricate a suicide shifter when creating a retro design.

 

Trikes based on cars (usually the Volkswagen Type 1) usually keep the original shifter.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_shifter"

Categories: Motorcycle technology

[TheFatBob]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The jockey shifter is a gear shifting device used on motorcycles before the use of a foot-operated shift lever. A jockey shifter also known as a slap shifter gets its name from the location of the motorcycle rider's hand when shifting gears, it is under his seat like the position of a jockey's hand while using his riding crop on his horse. This hand shifter lever is directly mounted to the transmission and is just long enough to clear the primary drive cover or belt drive. A motorcycle equipped with this type of shifter requires the use of a foot clutch. The foot clutch comes in one of two configurations; either a rocker foot clutch which was stock on many early motorcycles, or a suicide foot clutch which was never available on production motorcycles but was manufactured by daring motorcycle enthusiasts. The rocker foot clutch is easier to use than the suicide foot clutch because it can be rocked into a position where the clutch is either engaged or disengaged - leaving the rider's foot free to be put down, at a stop, to steady the motorcycle. Sometimes a tank shifter is referred to as a Jockey Shifter, but this isn't technically correct due to the rider's hand position being in front of him, not behind him like for a horse jockey. The earliest known use of a foot clutch and hand shifter on motorcycles was with the first multi-geared transmission on the 1915 Harley Davidson.[1] It is a mechanical linkage that is typically mounted to the left side of the motorbike's fuel tank and is held in place by a slotted piece of metal welded to the frame or the tank.[2] Through a series of linkages it is connected to the transmission shift selection lever. In terms comparable to a motorcycle of current construction it is simply a way to relocate the shift lever from the front foot controls to the side of the gas tank. Early motorcycle customizers who were trying to reduce their motorcycle's weight so as to increase its power to weight ratio would sometimes replace their stock rocker foot clutch with a hand fabricated suicide foot clutch, and remove the tank shifter's linkage and instead attach a shifter arm directly to the transmission. This reduced weight would not only make their bike accelerate better, but they would have bragging rights of riding a motorcycle which required more skill to operate.

 

Suicide clutch

The suicide clutch is sometimes referred to as a suicide shifter, which is a common mistake. The suicide clutch is a foot-operated clutch that is mounted on the left side of the motorcycle's forward foot controls.[2] The suicide clutch moniker has derived from difficulties in operating this form of clutch and shifter. On a motorcycle equipped with a conventional hand clutch and foot shifter, the rider places the left foot on the ground when stopped and holds the motorcycle in place with pressure on the rear brake pedal with the right foot, while engaging the clutch with the left hand. On a motorcycle equipped with a suicide clutch, the clutch is held in with the left foot, requiring the right foot to hold the bike in place, with the right hand applying pressure to the front brake.

 

Many riders have experienced difficulties transitioning from a conventional hand clutch motorcycle to a foot clutch, often stalling the engine when releasing the clutch at a stop.

[mas oyama]

nu am rabdare sa citesc ce ati postat (mai ales in english)

din ce stiu eu "suicide sifter" au motoarele mai vechi gen HD knuckelhead, la care ambreiajul este actionat la picor si schimabrea vitezei se facea la mana de obicei pe aceeasi parte.

originalele avea maneta de schimbare amplasata pe rezervor in lateral actionata printr-un sitem de pirghii ce ajungea la cutie , la o palma coborita de pe ghidon ajungeai la maneta de schimbator a vitezei, prin ducerea manetei sub sezut,amplasata mai jos sa fi mai cool pirghiile reducindu-se la minim dar schimbarea vitezei necesititnd manevre mai dificile,s-ar putea, ca de acolo sai vina denumirea de "suicide".

dupa mine suicide ar fi mai degraba ambreiajul,si nu schimbatorul, daca acesta se actiona si cu o oarecare opunere mai mare, aveai toate sansele sa te inclini pe partea respectiva mai mult decat ar fi necesar cu precadere ca lasi si ghidonul ca sa schimbi vitezele

oricum ar fi ,practica pentru oras nu o prea vad!

e de inteles ca te obisnuiesti cu toate da sigur iti ia ceva timp si dibacie sa manevrezi bine acest sistem.

suicide " folosesc termenul si cei care amplaseaza maneta de actionare a ambreiajului pe maneta schimbatorului facinduse o operatie 2 in 1.

[TheFatBob]

continui cu editorilaul lui Buck Lovell:

"So here's the deal,if your motorcycles is hand shifted with the shift lever mounted on the tank,it's called "tank shift".if your motorcycle is hand shifted with the shift lever mounted directly on top of the transmission,it's called"jockey shift".

horse riding jockeys hold a whip in their left hand down low to strike the horse to go faster,that's where the jockey shift name originated.if the shift lever is anywhere else,it's called something else,period.

 

Now,for the suicide clutch,in the good old days(pre foot shift days)choppers were built by stripping a motorcycle down to its bare essentials.Most,if not all american motorcycles were hand shifted, and foot clutched.Pre-foot shift Indian and HD motorcycles have what is termed a "rocker clutch".Indian style is "toe down"disengaged,Harley style is "heel down" disengaged.These clutch pedals could be "rocked" to their disengaged position as needed so the rider could put the left foot down to hold the bike up when applying the rear brake with the right foot.They would also be applying the front brake with the right hand.With a little riding practice,a rider could "rock" the clutch to its disengaged position and stop and start the bike on a hill using the front brake to keep it from rolling"....

[mas oyama]

"So here's the deal,if your motorcycles is hand shifted with the shift lever mounted on the tank,it's called "tank shift".if your motorcycle is hand shifted with the shift lever mounted directly on top of the transmission,it's called"jockey shift".

exact! si este data si explicatia!

[TheFatBob]

si final-ul:

"A suicide clutch was usually a rocker clutch pedal assembly that had its anbility to stay in the disengaged position disabled.

When the foot was removed from the pedal the clutch would engage like a car.So if you tried to stop on a hill NO FRONT BRAKE,your left leg would be holding the bike up and your right foot would be on the brake pedal.If the hill was steep it would be impossible to take your foot off the brake pedal.You were stuck.

 

Most chopper riders showed"class"by running a suicide clutch and jockey shift;it meant they were tatally macho.But back in the good old days,HD motorcycles were not making 100+ hp either."...

 

 

si un link cu suicide clutch si jockey shift de vinzare:

http://www.irontail.com/jockeyshiftkits/2000-softail.html

[mas oyama]

si final-ul:

"A suicide clutch was usually a rocker clutch pedal assembly that had its anbility to stay in the disengaged position disabled.

When the foot was removed from the pedal the clutch would engage like a car.So if you tried to stop on a hill NO FRONT BRAKE,your left leg would be holding the bike up and your right foot would be on the brake pedal.If the hill was steep it would be impossible to take your foot off the brake pedal.You were stuck.

 

Most chopper riders showed"class"by running a suicide clutch and jockey shift;it meant they were tatally macho.But back in the good old days,HD motorcycles were not making 100+ hp either."...

 

 

si un link cu suicide clutch si jockey shift de vinzare:

http://www.irontail.com/jockeyshiftkits/2000-softail.html

 

esti cu adevarat macho cu un astfel de sistem, si chiar da fain joky shifter, insa ambreiaj suicide si fara frina fata.... cum se paote mai rau.

[mas oyama]

[Ancalagon]

Sunt modele si modele, pe vremuri nu era standardizare, fiecare producator de motociclete isi facea comenzile cum ii era mai usor. Ironhead-ul din 60 avea frana pe stanga si ambreiajul pe dreapta - la picior - pentru ca era mai usor de facut comanda asa la transmisia respectiva. Indian Chief avea la un moment dat acceleratia pe stanga la ghidon si in dreapta o comanda care modifica avansul la aprindere - practic tragea cu un cablu de delcou. Schimbatorul de viteze era o maneta, iar ambreiajul era la picior.

Suicide clutch mai degraba e un termen peiorativ folosit de cei care au standardizat configuratia actuala de comenzi si care considerau pe cele vechi periculoase si demodate. Cred ca in final e o chestie de obisnuinta...

[sorinavram]

Dincolo de aspectele nostalgice, de design sau chiar de fitze, sa luam cateva aspecte practice pe care le implica suicide shifter-ul:

1. Ambreiaj la picior: uneori, la semafor, vrei s-o tii in trepta 1 si cu ambreiajul tras, ca sa poti pleca mai repede. Asta inseamna sa astepti sprijinindu-te doar pe un picior, acelasi mereu.

2. Schimbator la mana: uneori este nevoie sa schimbi viteza in curbe ralativ stranse, la viteze mici (de exemplu, pe serpentine de munte). Cam dificil de controlat ghidonul cu o singura mana.

3. Varianta cu o singura frana: e cea mai periculoasa, plus ca mi se pare ilegala. In materie de franare, trebuie sa existe un back-up.

 

Pana la urma, suicide shifterul a fost una din solutiile cautate de tehnicieni de-a lungul timpului pentru acest mod de transport. Faptul ca a fost abandonat in productiile de serie ale tuturor producatorilor spune multe despre deficientele acestui sistem. Celor care il sustin spunand ca e doar o chestie de obisnuinta li se poate replica faptul ca si mersul in carje e o tot o chestie de obisnuinta. Nu insa si dezirabila.

[Ancalagon]

Cred ca topicul a fost deschis tocmai din considerente nostalgice... E foarte corect ce spui, comenzile contemporane sunt cele mai bune - totusi, probabil peste ani si ani vor deveni si ele niste chestii nostalgice. Zilele trecute mi-am montat Simsonul din '59; din cele cateva motociclete moderne parcate in curte, crede-ma ca ne-am dat toata ziua cu oldtimerul, chiar asa nerestaurat cum era. Nu cred insa ca se gandeste nimeni sa il fabrice din nou in serie - cum nu e cazul intoarcerii la comenzi din anii '30. Dar are un farmec deosebit conducerea unei motociclete din timpuri eroice in care motociclistii era mai pasionati de pilotaj decat de siguranta...

Editat Mai 9, 2009 de Darth Wraith

[easybiker]

Un topic excelent. Chopperul ce l-am pornit si vreau sa il termin anul asta va fi cu suicide clutch. Si daca nu pot sa-l conduc asta este.

 

Cum spunea un mare meserias...Choppers aint dead,they just suck now.

[mas oyama]

Un topic excelent. Chopperul ce l-am pornit si vreau sa il termin anul asta va fi cu suicide clutch. Si daca nu pot sa-l conduc asta este.

 

Cum spunea un mare meserias...Choppers aint dead,they just suck now.

din ce mobra mai excat va fi?

[Ancalagon]

Cateva exemple de ambreiaj la picior, jockey-shifter...

Partea cu suicide cred ca se refera mai mult la "omorat motorul", nu omu', pentru ca e mai greu sa lasi ambreiajul lin cu piciorul cand pleci de pe loc...

 

[Barna]

... arata bine, este interesant dar sincer motocicletele sunt motociclete eu personal nu as vrea sa "chimb vitezele cu mana".

[TheFatBob]

Da,jockey shift is ultimele doua poze.

ref la suicide clutch,se refera la sistemul de ambreiaj care nu raminea in neutral,decit daca stateai cu piciorul pe comanda de ambreiaj,acest fapt impiedicindu-te sa iti poti tine echilibrul(dreptul fiind pe frina,iar fata neavind frina),plus ca riscai sa ambreieje brusc si sa te arunce in intersectie....asta am inteles eu.

[cria_p]

Da,jockey shift is ultimele doua poze.

ref la suicide clutch,se refera la sistemul de ambreiaj care nu raminea in neutral,decit daca stateai cu piciorul pe comanda de ambreiaj,acest fapt impiedicindu-te sa iti poti tine echilibrul(dreptul fiind pe frina,iar fata neavind frina),plus ca riscai sa ambreieje brusc si sa te arunce in intersectie....asta am inteles eu.

 

* eh..., cum era traficul la ei pe vremea aia (intersectie), nu era un mare risc.

acuma, nu ma pricep si mea culpa pentru inetrventie..., da' cred ca "suicide shifter" asta e doar inca o nota de non-conformism in randul chopperistilor (old school) si nu o treaba cu adevarat riscanta. nu stiu daca exista o lista undeva cu RIP chopperisti care au mers pe motoare cu asa ceva...

 

mai riscant mi se pare, de exemplu, faptul ca nu purtau deloc echipament (nici casca!). puteai sa mori ca boul la cea mai mica viteza, de la un impact minor. (deh!) pe de alta parte, riscul mare l-am vazut, intre motociclistii de la vremea aia, la cei care mergeau la curse, pe Indian, Triumph sau Harley cu sisteme de siguranta/protectie inexistente(!) si - iarasi - fara echpament adecvat.

 

back on-topic: mie mi se pare f. incomod sa schimbi vitezele cu mana la motor. din cauza pozitiei. (echilibrul, da!). dar cred ca e chestie de obisnuinta si conformatie.

Editat Mai 12, 2009 de cria_p