Despre suspensii

[MVA]

Salut. Nu am gasit nicaieri in functie de ce iti setezi amortizoarele...am gasit doar pe youtube cum sa le setezi.

 

deci, am deschis acest topic pentru a invata (atat eu cat si altii ca mine) cum se configureaza amortizoarele in functie de stilul de mers.

[Chivu]

Un topic bun. Am avut și eu de-a lungul timpului dilema asta, doar de curiozitate că n-am amortizoare reglabile.

[ctrad]

Deocamdata nu e bun , decat cu titlul .

Nimeni nu se apuca sa detalieze ?

Stiu ca e mult de scris , dar acuma . . . . asta e .

[T I M B E R L A N D]

ia d-aici

 

 

spor la citit

 

 

Adjusting Suspension

You should now have the rear of the cycle serviced with good bearings, proper spring, correct sag, and good oil and nitrogen pressure in the shock. The forks should have good oil, proper oil height, and proper springs and race sag. This article will deal with learning how to adjust the forks and shock to achieve the base settings for your riding style.

To start, you need a little knowledge of how the adjusters work. When you turn the clickers you are allowing a portion of the oil to bypass the valving mechanism. This will either stiffen or soften the dampening depending on the direction you turn the clickers. With most clickers, turning the screw clockwise will stiffen the action and turning the screw counter-clockwise will soften the action. If you have a KTM 1998-2001 with a black knob on the shock compression adjuster it will work just the opposite: clockwise softens the action, counter-clockwise stiffens the action.

The clickers located on the rear shock work as follows: the clicker on the top of the shock (as installed on the cycle) is the compression adjuster. The clicker at the base of the shock is the rebound adjuster. On the forks, the clickers on the top are the rebound adjusters and at the base of the fork are the compression adjusters. But on Showa twin chamber forks (found on Suzuki 125’s from 1993 to present, Suzuki 250’s from 1993 through 2000, and Honda 250’s and 450F’s from 1997 to present), the clickers are reversed. At the top of the fork is compression and at the base of the fork is rebound. If a shock has only one adjuster, normally it will be rebound. If a fork has only one adjuster, normally it will be compression.

The next points are very important when you start to adjust the clickers. First and VERY IMPORTANT – ALWAYS START WITH REBOUND. Rebound dampening is where your control comes from. If rebound is too hard (slow) it will Pack (not return fully) causing the suspension to be harsh – therefore fooling you into thinking the compression dampening is too stiff. If the rebound is too soft (fast) it will pogo (bouncing around) this time causing someone not experienced in suspension tuning to think the compression dampening is the problem. The next step is to turn the clicker clockwise until seated, then turn counter–clockwise, counting the number of clicks. Then, using a magic marker, write your base settings on the fork and shock for both compression and rebound-i.e. 12C -- 10R. You can either use the factory original settings or, if units have been worked on by suspension tuners, their recommendations, or the middle adjustable range if you do not have a recommended setting. The next step is to use a short practice trail – 1/2 mile long or less – with a variety of different types and sizes of bumps. You do not want a long trail. You need a short trail that can be ridden a lot of times so that the computer under your helmet can average out what your suspension is doing. You can’t do this on a long trail.

Now for the fun part: Start the cycle and, with screwdriver on hand, head out to the practice trail. Wear full riding gear, have race sag properly set, proper spring rates, and the clicker positions written on the suspension units. 0Start riding your practice trail as close to race speed as possible for about 10 minutes so that you can get a good feel for how the suspension is working with these base settings. Now you are going to screw up the suspension on purpose to get a feel for how it reacts when one of the adjusters is improperly adjusted. This is called CONTROLLED SCREW-UP. Start with the rebound adjuster on the suspension unit that felt the worst to you (remember, you ALWAYS start with rebound), turning it clockwise 6 clicks (harder or slower). Now the unit will tend to pack. Remember, if you are adjusting forks, you normally have a rebound adjuster on each fork – be sure to turn both an equal amount. Now start riding, slower at first, and as you get a feel for how the improperly adjusted unit is reacting, try picking up the pace to get the feel of a packing suspension unit. After about 10 minutes, stop riding and make a mental note of how the unit worked compared to how it worked at your base setting. Now turn the rebound clicker back to it’s base setting (6 clicks counter-clockwise) and then turn it another 6 clicks counter clockwise so that the suspension unit will be softer or faster and will tend to pogo. Again start riding slowly and build speed as you feel comfortable. After about 10 minutes, stop riding and judge how the suspension unit felt in the 3 different settings. Now turn the rebound clicker 2 clicks clockwise and start riding. Hopefully this will feel a little better than your last ride. After a period of time, stop and adjust another 2 clicks clockwise and ride. Keep doing this, 2 clicks at a time, until the quality of ride begins to get worse. Then, turn the rebound clicker 1 click counter clockwise and ride, continuing to adjust 1 click at a time until you find your NEW base setting. You now have the rebound on the suspension unit (i.e. fork or shock) that you started with adjusted for the best setting for you. Write this setting down on the suspension unit.

Now do the same procedure with the compression adjuster or adjusters: six clicks stiffer than base, 6 clicks softer than base, then 2 clicks at a time toward stiffer until it gets too stiff, then 1 click toward softer until you reach the ideal setting. Do the same for the other end of the cycle. Now you have both ends adjusted for your practice trail and you have experienced poorly adjusted suspension units. When you ride or race somewhere else the computer under your helmet will be able to help you get things tuned in very quickly. Remember – write down these NEW base settings on the suspension units and in a race log. This will help you get things set up right when you go back to a previously ridden course.

A FEW TIPS. From the base settings that you have tuned for yourself: For Sand runs, adjust to stiffen compression and slow rebound. For Rocks, Roots, and Potholes, adjust to soften compression, slow rebound. For Mud, adjust to stiffen compression, speed up rebound. If your shock has a high speed compression adjuster, it does not have clicks. Therefore, you will need to adjust by PARTS OF A TURN from full stiff (clockwise) turning out – i.e.: 1 turn, 1 5/8 turns, etc. Work on tuning this adjuster just as you would the screw clickers. Remember: Always start with rebound adjustment and, if in doubt as to which adjuster is off, always do rebound. The rebound adjustment is the most important but the hardest to determine if it is right or wrong. By doing rebound first you will not get fooled into thinking the problem is compression.

[dragos1972]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH2ztna6L04 setari pe greutatea riderului

[mottofreee]

Iar unul care numai povesteste?

Inainte cu un post e un tutorial ,pacat ca nu foloseste ca daca era in chineza macar apreciam ca s-a chinuit sa-l scrie. Asa e nefolositor ca si tipul ala care tot vorbeste (numai) .

[ceberița 46]

ceva mai concret, fara prea multe povesti, vorba lui mottofreee.

[Piff]

Sau,

 

puteti sa mergeti pe langa maternitatea giulesti. E un service moto acolo, si cand au putin timp , cu siguranta baietii va explica pe indelete ce se intampla cu suspensia si de ce.
Trebuie doar sa aveti putin timp, si vointa sa ciuliti urechea.

 

 

Nici ale mele nu sunt reglabile decat din preload

 

Succes!

 

P.s: am fost de 2 ori la service-ul asta si adevarul e ca am invatat lucruri despre motocicleta mea si nu numai foarte multe si foarte pe inteles explicate.

[yo4hgx]

Nici ale mele nu sunt reglabile decat din preload

Te poti juca cu "dampening"-ul prin schimbarea vascozitatii uleiului. De obicei, la motoarele fara reglaj in acest sens din fabrica se foloseste solutia de compromis, pentru confort. Pentru un mers mai sportiv se potriveste mai bine un ulei mai vascos. In acest caz insa volumul de ulei prescris de fabricant trebuie reajustat. Mie mi-au trebuit 3 schimburi de ulei (pe gustul meu fiind un amestec de vreo 70% 5W si 30% 10W - adica un fel de 8.5W - si vreo 25-30ml mai putin si vreo 2000km). Succes!

[Performance Solutions]

ceva mai concret, fara prea multe povesti, vorba lui mottofreee.

 

"povestile" alea sunt de fapt explicatii... acum 5-6 ani imi bateam gura pe aici despre importanta setarii suspensiilor, vad ca au mai aparut baieti care se ocupa de suspensii, lucru imbucurator dealtfel, acum trebuie sa-si dea seama si lumea, "clientii", de importanta lor!

[Cesar]

Reglarea suspensiilor este una dintre cele mai putin intuitive si, uneori, contraintuitive operatiuni care se poate face motocicletelor.

Trebuie studiat mult, experimentat si lucrat si mai mult pana cand sa se ajunga la un nivel multumitor de cunostinte + experienta utilizabile pentru strada sau pentru curse.

Ce am constatat in ultimii ani:

motociclistii vor sa aiba o suspensie adaptata stilului de mers fara sa schimbe arcurile - din pacate nu se poate

 

se vrea sa se faca reglaje fara servisare si/sau mententanta obligatorie - nu se poate

 

multi cred ca suspensiile se regleaza pe loc si ies perfect daca te duci la cine trebuie - nici asta nu se poate.

Reglajul de suspensii e o chestiune de durata si de comunicare intre beneficiar si cel care lucreaza la respectiva motocicleta.

Editat August 3, 2013 de Cesar

[Performance Solutions]

Reglarea suspensiilor este una dintre cele mai putin intuitive si, uneori, contraintuitive operatiuni care se poate face motocicletelor.

Trebuie studiat mult, experimentat si lucrat si mai mult pana cand sa se ajunga la un nivel multumitor de cunostinte + experienta utilizabile pentru strada sau pentru curse.

 

Ce am constatat in ultimii ani:

motociclistii vor sa aiba o suspensie adaptata stilului de mers fara sa schimbe arcurile - din pacate nu se poate

 

se vrea sa se faca reglaje fara servisare si/sau mententanta obligatorie - nu se poate

 

multi cred ca suspensiile se regleaza pe loc si ies perfect daca te duci la cine trebuie - nici asta nu se poate.

Reglajul de suspensii e o chestiune de durata si de comunicare intre beneficiar si cel care lucreaza la respectiva motocicleta.

 

 

rezumatul la ce a spus Cesar e: vor moaca, ieri si perfect! chestie care evident nu se poate...

[mottofreee]

Experimentati,experimentati si iar exparimentati -parca batranul inbalsamat zicea ceva cu invatatati .

Combinatii de 2 luate cate 3 ,adica schimbi arcurile -vezi cum e ,schimbi uleiul - faci inca o tura ,schimbi arcurile+uleiul -inca o tura ... poate-ti iese din prima ,poate numai te apropi de ce intentionezi dar o inbunatatire fata de ce a fost initial tot e ; e nevoie de teste dinamice,de acea s-au inventat telescoapele reglabile si sistemele cu gaz .

[Zimbrutza]

[Performance Solutions]

Experimentati,experimentati si iar exparimentati -parca batranul inbalsamat zicea ceva cu invatatati .

Combinatii de 2 luate cate 3 ,adica schimbi arcurile -vezi cum e ,schimbi uleiul - faci inca o tura ,schimbi arcurile+uleiul -inca o tura ... poate-ti iese din prima ,poate numai te apropi de ce intentionezi dar o inbunatatire fata de ce a fost initial tot e ; e nevoie de teste dinamice,de acea s-au inventat telescoapele reglabile si sistemele cu gaz .

altu'... arcurile se iau dupa greutatea pilotului. reglajele de preload sunt pentru altceva. nu le schimbi iar. uleiul se alege dupa stilul de mers, iarasi, se schimba tipul o singura data. reglajele de amortizare si revenire se fac in pasi mici pentru ca fiecare pilot (chiar si la un nivel similar) conduce altfel. nu e greu, trebuie doar sa nu refuzi sa gandesti. si sa renunti la mentalitatea "cei 100 de ingineri de la fabrica au stiut ei ceva". cei 100 de ingineri trebuie sa tina cont si de costuri. de asta motoarele echipate "extra" costa mult. vezi cazurile clasice ohlins+brembo. sa nu mai spunem de norme de poluare de orice fel cand vine vorba de schimbatul evacuarilor...

 

p.s. amortizoarele cu gaz? sunt pe motoare din '80, pana si la alea se poate regla presiunea, sa nu mai vorbim ca si la alea saracele se schimba si uleiul, lucru ignorat aproape total mai ales in romania...

[mottofreee]

Altu' cunoaste macar ca amortizoarele cu gaz (oleopneumatice) se folosesc si azi .

[Performance Solutions]

am zis ca sunt pe motoare din anii '80, nu ca sunt NUMAI pe motoarele din '80. unii mai stiu si sa citeasca...

[mottofreee]

Desigur!

[Performance Solutions]

you're kind of special, aren't you?

[mottofreee]

De cine zici ca are copil special ? Zi pe romaneste ca eu nu am afaceri in tarile anglofone pt a fi obligat sa invat englezeste . Daca vrei ,pe viitor, date cu limba rusa ca Stalin si poporul rus ,libertate ne-au adus (de nu am putut-o duce!) sau mai elevat in franceza ca doar tot suntem francofoni (asta de cand s-au dat soldatii romani la dace ) .

[ceberița 46]

Mai bine a-ti vorbi despre amortizoare decit sa va tot certati, nu de alta dar cu certurile voastre nu ajutati pe nimeni !

[Performance Solutions]

"a-m" vorbi daca ar mai fi ceva de vorbit. dar s-au postat doua raspunsuri deja care au fost catalogate ca "vorbaraie"...

[Zimbrutza]

pana la urma rebound-ul trebuie sa fie cat mai rapid posibil si preload-ul pe la 30-35% din cursa arcului?

[Performance Solutions]

20-25 mai degraba daca mergi tare.

[frigider]

ce-i aia amortizoare?

e nevoie de ele si cand te dai pe net?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pies. la mine in manual scrie setarea pentru raidar (nu spune daca adevarat sau fals..aici e dilema mea) de 70 kg. (adica fix cat am eu)

 

daaaar mentionez ca dupa servisarea furcii ....aceasta s-a-ntarit , ca sa ma exprim asa..ulei mai vascos decat cel din fabrica? deci fix pix setarea veche, aia facuta de dl de mai sus acum cativa ani buni

Editat August 5, 2013 de frigider