BMW R1200/1250 GS/GSA/RS/RT/R LC - 2013->

[KHK]

si EXP spatele cam cat te-a tinut Vlad? sau cam cat tine in mod normal pe GS?

 

Pai eu nu stiu inca; moto fiind cumparata anul trecut, abia am facut primul schimb.

EXP o sa pun pt sezonul viitor (2013).

Si recunosc ca pe mine ma intereseaza mai putin cat tin; orice cauciuc ar trebui sa tina in conditii normale cca 12.000 km cam cat fac eu intr-un sezon, apoi le schimb.

In plus, chestia asta cu cat tine depinde de multi factori: cum mergi, pe ce drumuri mergi preponderent si nu in ultimul rand nu toti considera acelasi stadiu de uzura ca fiind "gata".

 

Sa ne spuna eventual Ianachim ca el a tot folosit EXP si mi le recomanda.

[ianachim]

sunt cam la al 12 set metzeler tourance exp in 4 ani pe 2 gsa

 

grip primavara-iarna bun

grip -9. +40 grade bun

grip uscat umed ploaie normala ploaie torentiala zapada moale bun

grip asfalt piatra concasata pietris bun

manevrabilitate..... cine ma stie cum merg intelege

grip noroi iarba pamant moale nisip F prost nu merita bagat

 

nu am tinut mai mult de 12000 un set

spatele la 10000 papat

fata mai mergea dar depinde pe unde te dai si cu cine

alpi + duracell s a dus dracu si fata

[ovideo]

N-as rezista sa stau 12 randuri de cauciucuri cu aceeasi marca/model.

 

Sunt mai infidel! Inseamna ca esti tare multumit de ele de ai mers numai pe ele!

 

Urmatorul schimb cred ca o sa pun si eu EXP,n-am mai folosit pana acum,de aia am intrebat.

[alexcseh]

Stie cineva daca tank crashbar-ul de la wunderlich se pupa cu engine crashbar-ul original Bmw? Aia de la wunderlich zic ca da dar nu isi asuma daca nu... Mai are cineva combinatia asta?

 

Asta merita luat, facut si dat!!!http://www.copart.co.uk/c2/homeSearch.html?_eventId=getLot&execution=e1s2&lotId=12413592&returnPage=SEARCH_RESULTS

Cu transport cred ca iese in cam 6000€ si 2 semnale n-au cum sa coste o avere...

Editat Aprilie 5, 2012 de alexcseh

[KHK]

Sunt mai infidel!

 

Si n-a trecut nici macar un an de la nunta...

 

Stie cineva daca tank crashbar-ul de la wunderlich se pupa cu engine crashbar-ul original Bmw?

 

Dar daca nu ti-ai pune, ce-ar fi? Arata mai bine fara alea de rezervor, eu chiar nu le vad necesare (spre deosebire de crashbar si protectiile de cilindri).

[alexcseh]

Dar daca nu ti-ai pune, ce-ar fi? Arata mai bine fara alea de rezervor, eu chiar nu le vad necesare (spre deosebire de crashbar si protectiile de cilindri).

 

M-am mai gandit si avand in vedere ca mai am casco pana prin noiembrie nu le mai iau. Daca o raschetez, sa cotizeze pt ca mobra e asigurata si protectiile nu.Poate la anu' (daca nu ii mai fac asigurare) pt ca am un prieten care le are si a dat motorul pe-o parte si s-au zgariat bine de tot

[jhonny1]

Paste fericit tuturor !

[alexcseh]

Iete vaca!

 

 

Editat Aprilie 16, 2012 de alexcseh

[KHK]

Iete vaca!

 

Triple black...

S-o stapanesti sanatos! Pare destul de dotata.

[Bigfoot]

Iete vaca!

 

 

 

Negrul asta ii da un echilibru si ii mai ascunde din uratenie( dpv al design-ului ) in opinia mea.

 

Multi km iti urez!

[ovideo]

Iete vaca!

 

 

S-o stapanesti sanatos. Esti din Brasov sau erai doar in trecere prin Poiana?

[KHK]

Stie cineva daca tank crashbar-ul de la wunderlich se pupa cu engine crashbar-ul original Bmw? Aia de la wunderlich zic ca da dar nu isi asuma daca nu... Mai are cineva combinatia asta?

 

Vad ca au scos si cei de la Touratech: http://shop.touratech.at/sturzbugel-fur-verkleidung-edelstahl-fur-bmw-r1200gs-ab-2008.html

Scrie clar ca este compatibil si cu crashbar-ul original BMW.

Dar tot nu mi-as pune... De fapt, la mine cred ca nici as putea din cauza proiectoarelor.

[alexcseh]

Triple black...

S-o stapanesti sanatos! Pare destul de dotata.

 

Multam. Nu am dotat-o cine stie ce, doar top case, protectie radiator ulei, protectie far, rama aia de ceasuri de bord cu 2 prize si tankpad-uri. Restul de accesorii au venit cu mobra. In plan as mai avea macar coburii dar nu sunt convins de care... sa merg pe Vario sau ceva cu rack-uri sa mai protejeze daca ma impachetez...

I-am vazut pe aia de la Konvoi dar nu sunt chiar ieftini...500euri (allinclusive fara transport) mi se par cam multi...

Aia de la h&b cum sunt? Ca asa din poze par cam plasticosi dar pe de alta parte smecheria cu peretii dublii si posibilitatea de a pune apa in ei e destul de tare.

cei de aluminiu cat de tare influenteaza aerodinamica mobrei? consum?

Voi pt ce ati optat?

 

Negrul asta ii da un echilibru si ii mai ascunde din uratenie( dpv al design-ului ) in opinia mea.

 

Multi km iti urez!

 

Multumesc. Asta cu uratenia depinde de gust, eu am vazut-o si pe asta noua, rally si nici macar asta nu mi se pare really uggly...

Pe de alta parte nici miss mamaia 2008 nu e dar nu ma deranjeaza ca nu am luat-o sa ma duc la Bamboo cu ea.

Editat Aprilie 17, 2012 de alexcseh

[NaeL]

Daca gentile laterale sunt la fel de prost gandite ca topcaseul... atunci mai bine fara VARIO. Eu sunt dezamagit de topcase: foarte mic inauntru fata de cat de mare este pe afara.

[KHK]

cei de aluminiu cat de tare influenteaza aerodinamica mobrei? consum?

Voi pt ce ati optat?

 

Eu am optat (alegand total independent de aspectul financiar) pt. tot setul vario.

Dupa gustul meu, se integreaza de departe cel mai bine in designu-ul GS-ului.

Apoi, aspectul "vario" mi s-a parut foarte interesant si folositor; pana acum insa mi-au fost suficiente sidecase-urile fara sa le extind dar stiu ca la nevoie pot sa-mi extind oferta de spatiu. Iar la topcase am folosit des...

N-or fi cele mai solide (stiu ca unii s-au plans de ele) dar eu nu am pana acum ce sa le reprosez.

Am stat mult pe ganduri la inceput sa mi le iau pe cele de ADV dar pe langa aspectul "aerodinamica" si diemnsiuni m-a dat mult inapoi faptul ca tot timpul (cand nu am cutiile montate, adica mai mult de 90% din timp) trebuie sa vad barele alea pe motocicleta care mie mi se par destul de grobiene. La ADV se potrivesc mai bine in peisaj dar la GS parca nu... iar partea cu protectia, la fel ca si crashbar-ul suplimentar de rezevor ma cam lasa rece.

Un alt aspect de care eu personal as tine cont in cazul in care vrei de la alta firma ar fi sa-ti ofere si ca optiune geanta interioara potrivita; este mult mai comod si "elegant" decat sa-ti cari toate cutiile in camera ca sa umbli prin pungutele de plastic.

Alt aspect de luat in seama: indiferent ca-s cele vario sau ADV, daca le iei de la BMW ai aceeasi cheie cu motocicleta.

De asemenea, daca iei de la alta firma, neaparat cel din stanga sa fie putin mai mic sa compenseze volumul tobei de esapament, altfel se vede ca naiba. Am vazut unele H&B de aceeasi marime, cel din stanga era clar mai departat si se vedea asimetric si dizgratios.

 

Insa daca ai de gand sa cari mult si pe drumuri proaste, poate cele gen ADV sau Zega (cele de la BMW tot de TT sunt produse)sunt o optiune mai buna. Insa si mai scumpa.

 

Am vazut ca ai deja suportii pt. cele vario, deci problema este partial rezolvata.

Editat Aprilie 17, 2012 de khk

[bogdan_harea]

Pt toti cei interesati si in special pt ERU@ si budd@

 

Final Drives

 

by Anton Largiader

 

The intent of this article is to augment the information that has been written recently regarding the design (and failures) of the final drive gearboxes used on K and R models from the 1980s through the last R1150 models.

 

There are basically two moving parts within a final drive. The pinion gear is driven by the driveshaft and usually has ten to twelve teeth. The ring gear (sometimes called the crown gear) is driven by the pinion gear and has about thirty teeth. Each is machined as a shaft which is supported by a bearing on each side of the gear.

 

When the R80G/S was launched, it brought with it a new final drive design which immediately became as significant a recognition feature as the opposed cylinders had been. The single-sided swingarm, where the wheel bolts on as it does in a car, was here.

 

Prior to this, the wheel had ridden on an axle which was supported at each end. The power was delivered by a hollow spline which fit around the axle and was supported by its own bearings within the final drive. With the new Monolever design, the drive spline was gone and the wheel fastened directly to the ring gear of the final drive. The axle was eliminated, or more precisely, the ring gear now served as the axle. This meant that the bearings supporting that gear now needed to be strong enough to support the weight of the bike. The Paralever bikes, which started in 1987 and continued through the R1150GS Adventure, used the exact same design.

 

Bearing layout

 

Here's how the bearings are arranged in these final drives:

 

The pinion shaft is held by needle bearings on the inner end and a heavy roller/ball combination bearing on the outside. Because the teeth are helically cut, there is some axial* load on the pinion shaft as it tries to screw itself in or out, but most of the load is sideways: it pushes up and down on the ring gear and tries to push itself away from it due to the angled gear teeth. Since needle bearings cannot resist any axial load, the large bearing is the only thing keeping the pinion from sliding back and forth.

 

The ring gear is supported by a tapered roller bearing on the inside and a heavy ball bearing on the outside. The main loads are borne by the ball bearing, and the tapered bearing holds the end of the shaft in alignment. In order to properly maintain the gear mesh, it's vital that the ring gear stay at a controlled distance from the pinion, so it is slightly compressed between these two bearings when the drive is assembled.

 

There is a problem, though. As it is compressed between the housing and the housing cover during assembly, the ball bearing is axially loaded. Ball bearings generally do not withstand axial loads very well, and most failed bearings show signs of excessive axial loading. Some of this is inherent in the fact that the ring gear is compressed, or preloaded, on assembly, some of it is due to the axial forces from the pinion shaft, and some is from the reaction at the tapered bearing when load is placed on the wheel. Why do we hear more about failures now, if the same design has been used for more than two decades? Let's take a closer look at the forces on the bearings as bikes get heavier and tires get wider.

 

Bearing forces

 

The arrows marked "Wheel force" are from the static load of the bike. There is an upward force from the ground acting through the wheel, several inches away from the final drive. This is countered by a force acting downward on the large bearing (think of this as the weight of the bike) and another force at the tapered bearing, countering the twisting effect which results from the contact patch not being directly under the big bearing. As tires get wider, the contact patch gets farther away and this last arrow gets larger. As it gets larger, the axial component of the force on the tapered bearing grows also, which results in a corresponding axial load on the ball bearing. For a 400-pound load on the wheel of an R1100RT, the horizontal component is about 175 pounds.

 

The arrows marked "Preload" are the compressive forces resultant from the specified assembly stress. These are constant, and I estimate them at several hundred pounds.

 

The "Pinion force" arrows represent the force of the pinion gear pushing on the ring gear to make it turn. This is angled due to the shape of the gear teeth, and therefore exerts an axial force on the ring gear which is resisted by the big bearing. When coasting, this force is nearly nothing, but under full acceleration it can be well over 1000 pounds.

 

This can be seen by looking at the three loads on the far left of the diagram. Each of them tries to push the ring gear to the right, which beans the ball bearing has to push back.

 

So the big bearing has to resist three different lateral loads for which it isn't so well suited. Are we doomed to suffer bearing failures because the design places axial loads on a ball bearing? No. This is a lifetime (200k mile or more) bearing in most bikes. When it isn't, something is wrong, and the main variable in the system is the amount of preload on that bearing. The preload is set by shims which fit between the cover and the bearing, and BMW specifies that there should be 0.05~0.10mm of interference when assembling the final drive. If there is too much, you will place excessive side loads on that bearing. What happens to this interference when the unit is assembled? It causes a minute amount of 'stretch' of the housing and cover, which is in turn relieved by expansion as the final drive heats up in use.

 

After the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed, local engineers proposed strengthening and reusing the same design. Theodore von Karman, whose work in aerodynamics showed the design's flaws, responded "…and it will fall in the same place."Many articles have been written about replacing the bearing, but most of them suggest replacing the shims exactly as found. I don't understand this at all; here is an assembly which has failed and we're going to replace the damaged component and pretend it never happened? It didn't go bad by itself. The new 17-ball bearing is undoubtedly better, but it's not a cure for improper assembly. Any time a final drive is rebuilt, it should be thoroughly checked out.

 

 

Shimming

What does the all-important shimming do? On the standard Monolever and Paralever drives, there are three areas that need to be shimmed to provide the correct fit between parts.

 

 

1. Pinion

The teeth on the ring and pinion gears are cut in what is known as a Klingelnberg profile. These are essentially bevel* gears with a helical cut, but the helix has a pronounced curve. If you fit the two parts together, you can see that as you slide the pinion towards the center of the ring gear it will rock counterclockwise, and as you try to slide it away it will rock clockwise.

 

In the diagrams below, the light colored teeth are the ring gear and the dark teeth are the pinion. Notice that if the pinion is not centered, the teeth make contact at the upper left and lower right (too far in) or the upper right and lower left (too far out). In the middle diagram, there is even loading across the tooth face.

 

Too far in - pressure is on the ends of the teethCentered - pressure will be even across the tooth face. The gap represents the backlash.Too far away - pressure on the ends of the teethThere is only one distance (from the center of the ring gear) where the pinion is aligned properly, and the pinion shim holds the pinion in that one position. Positioning the pinion too close or too far from the ring gear will place all of the load on the edges of the teeth.

 

 

2. Backlash

With the pinion meshing properly, there should be a small amount of free play between the two gears.

 

 

This is measured by immobilizing the pinion, rotating the ring gear and measuring the amount of movement. A shim under the tapered bearing controls the depth to which the ring gear seats in the housing. The closer it gets to the pinion, the less free play there will be. The specified free play at the gear teeth is about a tenth of a millimeter. If there's too much or too little distance between the gears, the teeth will wear.

 

 

3. Cover

Once the ring gear has been positioned in the housing properly relative to the pinion, the cover is installed so that it provides a certain amount of preload, or clamping force, to hold the ring gear in place.

 

 

This is done with shims between the cover and the ring gear bearing. The flat areas on the cover and housing with eight holes are the mating surfaces. The distance that the bearing protrudes above this surface in the housing is compared to the depth of the bearing recess below the corresponding surface in the cover. Shims are selected to make the bearing taller (or make the cover shallower, take your pick) so there is a slight amount of interfecrence as the two are bolted together.

 

 

Evo Paralever

With the R1200GS, BMW introduced a new design for the final drive. The EVO Paralever is recognizable by the large hole through the middle. Where have we seen this before? Yes, the twin-shock Airhead final drives had a hole in the middle, where the rear axle went. With the single-sided swingarm there is no longer a separate axle, of course, but design similarities between the Twin-shock final drive and the EVO Paralever go farther.

 

On the EVO, the small end once again has a needle bearing, so the ring gear bearing cannot be preloaded. Axial position of the ring gear is now controlled entirely by the ball bearing at the wheel, and the needle bearing does not (and cannot) contribute any axial load due as a result of the weight of the bike. Those axial loads on the main ball bearing, therefore, are eliminated. Furthermore, there are only two clearances to shim: the pinion and the backlash.

 

That ball bearing is held in the cover, and the backlash is controlled by positioning the cover with shims. Without preload on the ring gear, the inherent play in the bearings can be felt as a tiny bit of looseness in the wheel. This is normal; BMW specifies that up to 1mm of play can be measured at the rim before a final drive is considered defective.

 

The twin-shock Airheads also had a needle bearing on the small end of the ring gear, but axial position was controlled by a thrust bearing shim, much like the Airhead crankshaft is. Counting the pinion and cover bearing shims, these drives still had three adjustments to make upon assembly.

 

* The term "Bevel" means that the axes of the two gears intersect. A worm gear would be a different type where the pinion axis is tangential to the ring gear, and a hypoid gear is anywhere in between the two. Bevel gears (like BMW final drives) and spur gears (engine, transmission) have only rolling contact between the gear teeth. Hypoid and worm gears have sliding contact.

 

*Note: "Axial load" refers to loading which results from a force applied along the central axis of the gear. For example, the sideways loading on a car tire as you go around a corner. Forces which act perpendicular to the axis, or towards the centerline of the gear, are referred to as radial forces.

Editat Aprilie 20, 2012 de bogdan_harea

[22iulian]

Pt toti cei interesati si in special pt ERU@ si budd@

 

Pfuaaa

Da,..m-ai convins

E foarte nasoala treaba

 

Mai ai articole d-astea ?

 

 

 

[bogdan_harea]

Articole sunt destule despre subansamble moto, iar scopul nu era de a arata defecte, ci de a lamuri tipul de angrenaj folosit de BMW la cardane. Discutia a inceput la Crosstourer cu doi fani si nu avea rost continuarea ei acolo. Sper sa nu supar prea rau. Peace!

[foxbat]

Pt toti cei interesati si in special pt ERU@ si budd@

 

Pfuaaa

Da,..m-ai convins

E foarte nasoala treaba

 

Mai ai articole d-astea ?

 

 

 

 

 

tu n ai 200k deci e de bine

 

glumesc, vine varaaa(dero)

[Dan Cata]

Felicitari, ai descoperit site-ul lui Lagardier Neeeext!

[foxbat]

Felicitari, ai descoperit site-ul lui Lagardier Neeeext!

 

ha?

[Dan Cata]

Era pentru domnul Harea

[KHK]

Nu prea inteleg rostul a ditamai articolul despre roti dintate pe acest topic, cu atat mai mult cu cat ERU sau Budd nici macar nu sunt posesori de R 1200GS

 

Noi obisnuim sa ne plimbam cu motocicletele , asta am facut si azi:

 

[sivi]

Salutare,

 

Am schimbat Stroama de 650 cu R1200 GS-ul de mai jos......

e un 2008 cu 8300km si-mi place din ce in ce mai mult pe fiecare zi....

Am sa urmaresc o eventuala urmatoare intalnire de-a voastra poate mai aflu si eu cate ceva.

Sa ne vedem cu bine!

Editat Aprilie 21, 2012 de xtrblack

[zigzag]

Am sa urmaresc o eventuala urmatoare intalnire de-a voastra poate mai aflu si eu cate ceva.

Sa ne vedem cu bine!

 

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